Stop fucking holding "passing" up as the end goal of transition, because not everybody can and not everybody wants to - or folks "pass" as something they actually aren't.
I don't blame anybody for wanting to "pass" as a defense mechanism, but if you're going to suggest that other people should be subject to misgendering and erasure to save yourself a little embarassment, you're a little past "defense mechanism" and into "assimilation".
Fuck that noise, and normalize sharing pronouns in all spaces.
@starfall does someone passing mean they're trying to pass though? I agree that sharing pronouns is great, but so many people don't, or don't bother checking the places I share them. More often than not passing comes down to other people willfully putting me in a box because I didn't scream "I have a dick!" Am I obligated to out myself and open myself up to trans panic in public?
Does Natalie advocate for not mentioning pronouns? Do I need to rewatch something?
@squeedoodle the specific tweets i'm referencing here (https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/1167966463694712832 and https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/1168389535627141122) start out with a reasonable complaint about spaces that are awkward about pronouns and only really include them in introductions as a performative thing or when folks are "clocked"
and then she complains that it hurts her because she does have folks assume her pronouns correctly, and decides to randomly dunk on enbies for it
yeah, a lot of people don't share or check pronouns and we specifically mentioned "folks 'pass' as something they actually aren't" for a million and a half reasons, and i ain't ever going to tell folks they need to make themselves unsafe over anything else but--
that's exactly why we need to normalize it. make it safe for people to share, and make it normal for everybody to so that nobody gets singled out
@starfall hmm. That context was helpful. Thank you. I don't have twitter. Knowing that, I agree with your take. Started out with a complaint I can empathize with, and got...not great. While it is a fine line to walk between comaining about passing erasure and being blinded by passing privilege, I think she's leaning a bit hard into the "but I pass enough to get incidentally gendered the way I wnat to be," bit. I'm genuinely having a hard time telling if it's..
@starfall actually a bit or just a glimspe of her genuine feelings. It can be frustratingly hard to tell with her.
Also, joke or not, it feels lime she's just assuming everyone in those rooms are cis. Plenty of afab femme people are still not cis, and even appreciate being able to articulate their pronouns, or just having that be a feature of the space, even if they only use she/her/hers.
@squeedoodle @starfall yeah, I've noticed that some people in majority transfem spaces kinda imply that being curvy and wearing skirts and makeup is a "girl" thing to do, even though there's plenty of feminine afab people with curves who wear makeup who don't identify as women. Some are even men. If you're gonna ask pronouns, you shouldn't just ask the androgynous people, people who "look cis" can be just as trans.
@starfall @squeedoodle Yeah, I usually like Contrapoints, but I hate how people lionize her as this Paragon of trans Leftism, when she constantly fails to recognize her privilege. She just goes "uwu sorry I'm just problematic™" and fucking moves on, but doesn't really change her behavior. It seems like she'll flip-flop between defending non-binary people, and non-passing trans people, but then mock them or say some dumb Gatekeeping or "Dirtbag Left" shit.
@starfall fuck, very much this. I'm a trasnwoman who also identifies as a genderfuck (TL;DR intentional signal mixing in presentation) and passing has never been an intention for me, it's always been about curbing the worst negative effects of constant dysphoria and improving my emotional and sexual health.
@starfall and that's not even the only thing that's valid. Trans people transition for many reasons, and all of them are genuinely valid.
@starfall I get the feeling she's this close to saying she doesn't feel comfortable around non-passing trans people as they make cis people more likely to misgender her by proximity. :(
@starfall I hate being asked my pronouns because I'm not out so it means I have to misgender myself, but I don't think the solution to that is just guessing based on how someone looks 🤔🤔🤔
Personally I use gender neutral pronouns for everyone who hasn't told me to do otherwise, which means that I don't misgender anyone who doesn't "pass" or isn't out, but at the same time hopefully it shows that I am a safe person to tell your pronouns to if they're out. I feel like contrapoints wouldn't like my way of doing it either :/
Guessing someone's pronouns based on their appearance is the most shit option of the many options we have :/ it's transphobic and sexist. You can't guess based on someone's body shape or what they wear.
@Some_Person yeah judging by what she said on twitter, contra seems to have resigned herself to accepting that pronouns are part of introductions, but views defaulting to "they" as misgendering
which, like... i can see how it could be in a twisted sort of way, but it's better than not doing that
@starfall hmmm... what other option do we have then? She doesn't like asking for pronouns, she doesn't like defaulting to "they" until told otherwise... 🤔 I guess I'll have to misgender everyone until told otherwise 🤷♂️
I think if you're only calling people who "look trans" "they" it's a bit dodgy, but the whole point is to do it to "passing" people as well. I've been calling one of my girlfriend's friends "they" for a while despite them looking like a cis guy and they turned out to be a trans girl, so it's worked out well so far :) She told me her real pronouns later and that basically avoided me calling her "he" or asking a stranger I talked to once for their pronouns, which she'd probably have to lie about.
Idk, just guessing pronouns based on appearance is legitimately the worst option. If contrapoints doesn't get to feel "validated" for being more passing than other trans people, that's her problem. It's not something to feel better than others for.
@Some_Person yeah, the folks in her replies are taking this as an OK on that worst option.
but you just know these folks who feel a little off about the nonspecific "they" are just privileged enough not to get outright misgendered like they're gonna do to other folks
there's really no way to always gender everybody correctly, but assuming "they" until proven wrong and normalizing sharing pronouns when introducing ourselves in safe places (with the knowledge that some folks are out in some places and not others, or may come out later) is really the only way to minimize hurting people
@starfall yeah, I'm totally with you on that. Just guessing peoples gender based on their clothes and body shape (which has nothing to do with gender) is the worst option of all the options available. Although other options aren't perfect, at least it's not randomly misgendering everyone you come across.
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