syscourse, abuse mention, long 

if you say that it's been scientifically proven that trauma causes multiplicity you either don't know what scientifically proven means or know of, and endorse, horrific abuse and presumably illegal experimentation.

to prove causation scientifically* entails an experiment with a control and test group and comparing the difference between the two.
in terms of sorting out causation of multiplicity that means purposely traumatizing a, fairly large if you want a decent effect size, group of children for years, in order to see if they end up plural. that is not only horrifically unethical and evil, there is no way to get that past an ethics board which means its never going to be done.

also science still can't agree if multiplicity is a real thing, so if you say that there is a fucking consensus on the cause you have no what you are talking about.

re: syscourse, abuse mention, long 

*theoretically you could compare systems with no trauma history to trauma based ones to non systems with trauma and non systems without but brain imaging being what it is you need to know the areas you want to look at and we don't actually know exactly what brain architecture is involved in dissociation.
this makes it prohibitively difficult to do the above since for an accurate picture of the differences you would need to compare everything if you don't know the specific areas. which would be a ridiculous amount of work in a two way study with enough people for a decent effect size let alone a 4x4 design like above

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re: syscourse, abuse mention, long 


this is my brain food. gears turning.

- Diss / (unnamed)

@dissociation @aquariussystem My biggest issues with people married to structural dissociation theory:

1. There’s no evidence that an infant’s “personality” “forms” or “comes together”, because we can’t prove that babies have much of a personality. Outside of a VERY limited range of responses to an independent variable, there’s no way to show that personalities “cohere” by a certain age.

2. That fucking age cutoff. “Your trauma has to have occurred before the age of x” bitch gtfo.

@setsuna @dissociation @aquariussystem We’ve also noticed systems use these “science” claims to invalidate as many collectives as they can. They’re so quick to weaponize it and it’s incredibly harmful to the community.

@setsuna @aquariussystem

Id like to add @noriplanet (@noriplanet had made a post about opening up to therapist few hours ago) to this convo because @setsuna has made good points on structural dissociation theory.

On the science part, I believe it is a lack of proper 'control' and 'variable' problem, as @aquariussystem had pointed out, along with ethnical violations and lack of reliable data and statistics.

Society deciding what is normal or not, then attempting to stigmatize, hide, or eliminate people who don't fit in the "normal" circle ---

unfortunately that kind of behavior has affected our science and medical professions and worlds because, in the fact, we all are humans (or residing in human bodies) regardlessly.

- Diss

@dissociation @setsuna one thing we have noticed is that in many cases those using science as a basis for exclusion; in syscourse, transmed stuff, and many others; tend to distort and misinterpret a lot of scientific opinions as well as ignoring the last five years or so.

while some of it is definitely intentional i do think some of it is a genuine lack of understanding. not everyone has access to the latest papers and news, and with the age of a lot of them i don't expect a high level of scientific literacy, given how many are high school age and younger. that's not a super common skill to have been taught then and as a someone who at that age did manage to get a hold of papers and university textbooks (go library book sales) its really not easy to teach yourself.

syscourse, long 

@setsuna @aquariussystem @dissociation thanks for tagging me. at this point, my opinion is that science cant answer everything.

also, that beloved science doesn't listen to the same authors everywhere in the world. as a person from Scandinavia, i can tell you our psychiatrists don't have NEAR the same views on DID/OSDD/systems in general. in fact, the majority i've met are still grasping the believing it exists part.

re: syscourse, long 

@noriplanet @setsuna @aquariussystem

singlets grasping the belief of plurals/multiples existence is difficult because I feel that singlets assume it is impossible to be a contributing / well functioning citizen and a stable being for people to rely on if you are not "yourself" all times if you have people residing in your body.

but what ironic is that they all dont always fit ALL of these descriptions (stable, reliable, etc) they expected to be.

in middle of the talk with my girl last night about our system, she was hurt about the fact that not all of us have feelings nor love her and asked if it is possible for us to have feelings to her. Said stuff about cannot rely on me (Eric), etc.

I told her that it is not possible because we dont know - we all are separate beings, not one, we share same body and we gotta communicate and work together. We are still figuring out which have feelings to her so that we can get him to front more occasionally to her.

- Diss

yeah, dating as a system is unbelievably hard for this very reason. i'm at awe at the ones who get a monogamous relationship to work between a system and a singlet.


right?! I can't even imagine how we can be a monogamist because, for example we have George, who is gay.

sexuality is a spectrum and its extremely sad of how people are so unaccepting toward what we are sexually attracted to

- Diss


@dissociation it's also rare every single system member is attracted to the same person, and what your girl said is very guilt-inducing... even we struggle though our orientations and preferences all come to 'men are cool'


yep @ rarity and guilty-inducing

luckily, I was able to handle that and explained things to her patiently, while other systemmates probably likely wouldn't do the same

We had decided to just set our body (Eric)'s default sexual orientation as queer so that we will not have to "advertise" our complicated our sexuality preferences

- Diss

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Plural Café is a community for plural systems and plural-friendly singlets alike, that hopes to foster a safe place for finding and interacting with other systems in the Mastodon fediverse.