syscourse, abuse mention, long 

if you say that it's been scientifically proven that trauma causes multiplicity you either don't know what scientifically proven means or know of, and endorse, horrific abuse and presumably illegal experimentation.

to prove causation scientifically* entails an experiment with a control and test group and comparing the difference between the two.
in terms of sorting out causation of multiplicity that means purposely traumatizing a, fairly large if you want a decent effect size, group of children for years, in order to see if they end up plural. that is not only horrifically unethical and evil, there is no way to get that past an ethics board which means its never going to be done.

also science still can't agree if multiplicity is a real thing, so if you say that there is a fucking consensus on the cause you have no what you are talking about.

re: syscourse, abuse mention, long 

*theoretically you could compare systems with no trauma history to trauma based ones to non systems with trauma and non systems without but brain imaging being what it is you need to know the areas you want to look at and we don't actually know exactly what brain architecture is involved in dissociation.
this makes it prohibitively difficult to do the above since for an accurate picture of the differences you would need to compare everything if you don't know the specific areas. which would be a ridiculous amount of work in a two way study with enough people for a decent effect size let alone a 4x4 design like above
-smile

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re: syscourse, abuse mention, long 

@aquariussystem

this is my brain food. gears turning.

- Diss / (unnamed)

@dissociation @aquariussystem My biggest issues with people married to structural dissociation theory:

1. There’s no evidence that an infant’s “personality” “forms” or “comes together”, because we can’t prove that babies have much of a personality. Outside of a VERY limited range of responses to an independent variable, there’s no way to show that personalities “cohere” by a certain age.

2. That fucking age cutoff. “Your trauma has to have occurred before the age of x” bitch gtfo.

@setsuna @dissociation @aquariussystem We’ve also noticed systems use these “science” claims to invalidate as many collectives as they can. They’re so quick to weaponize it and it’s incredibly harmful to the community.

@setsuna @aquariussystem

Id like to add @noriplanet (@noriplanet had made a post about opening up to therapist few hours ago) to this convo because @setsuna has made good points on structural dissociation theory.

On the science part, I believe it is a lack of proper 'control' and 'variable' problem, as @aquariussystem had pointed out, along with ethnical violations and lack of reliable data and statistics.

Society deciding what is normal or not, then attempting to stigmatize, hide, or eliminate people who don't fit in the "normal" circle ---

unfortunately that kind of behavior has affected our science and medical professions and worlds because, in the fact, we all are humans (or residing in human bodies) regardlessly.

- Diss

@dissociation @setsuna one thing we have noticed is that in many cases those using science as a basis for exclusion; in syscourse, transmed stuff, and many others; tend to distort and misinterpret a lot of scientific opinions as well as ignoring the last five years or so.

while some of it is definitely intentional i do think some of it is a genuine lack of understanding. not everyone has access to the latest papers and news, and with the age of a lot of them i don't expect a high level of scientific literacy, given how many are high school age and younger. that's not a super common skill to have been taught then and as a someone who at that age did manage to get a hold of papers and university textbooks (go library book sales) its really not easy to teach yourself.
-smile

@aquariussystem @dissociation Also yes totally agree. I’m speaking specifically about blogs like IWWTTTT, which routinely go after anyone who doesn’t fit the “textbook” definition of DID.

@setsuna @dissociation i have seen so many people called fakes for things i had professors say were common expressions of symptoms
-smile

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@aquariussystem @setsuna

when people don't understand something, they'd reject them or call them false because they struggle / dont / cant grasp on a new concept

@aquariussystem @setsuna

Jesus christ, still learning how mastodon thread works because replies/posts are not in the order.

tagging @noriplanet bc didnt tag her before

its interesting to allow people to have multiple discussions in one status but it can be confusing if you want to integrate multiple conversations to one or make one toot response to all

- Diss

@setsuna

So if you tag someone once, will they get notifications everytime even though if they aren't tagged in later post under same thread?

- Diss

@dissociation You get a notification for all replies in which you’re tagged 🙂

@setsuna

yeah that's what i assumed

so I tagged @noriplanet bc I wanted her to have a notification =)

- Diss

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Plural Café is a community for plural systems and plural-friendly singlets alike, that hopes to foster a safe place for finding and interacting with other systems in the Mastodon fediverse.