The admin of Sunbeam City, @puffinus_puffinus, has offered to take over the instance as a part of their co-op. I think this would be excellent for everyone, but I wanted to see how everyone here felt about this?
@KT to clarify for you folks, I'm one admin out of a few on SBC, and we, the Sunbeam City Co-operative, may be able to lend a hand in the time after your current admin leaves to help you set up as a co-operative in your own right. This mostly just requires people to be on board with the idea. Come chat to me or others on SBC if you're interested.
@KT @puffinus_puffinus I have big concerns about the applicability of democratic decision making in social spaces. Hell, I have concerns about the applicability of democratic decision making to anything, because a vote does not necessarily indicate consensus.
A recall process for decisions and/or admins is a good idea. I have been in too many spaces where the folks nominally in control are incapable of taking decisive action (in removing abusers, for instance) to feel comfortable with anything more.
We are currently chatting casually about what this offer of help would mean for us and for plural.cafe, and if we feel it's necessary, we later will hold a vote. I don't feel a vote will be necessary, judging by how people responding. We don't vote on everything or follow any real guidelines as to how we make decisions.
We previously were more structured and bureaucratic and this led to some of our members struggling to contribute because the co-op had placed unnecessary barriers to participation and contribution.
We tend to chat amongst ourselves (as we are now) if anything needs to be decided, or use polls on Mastodon if the outcome would be useful. For running an instance, at a minimum it requires two roles to be filled, though the more admins the better (we currently have four).
Okay. Any member of the co-op can become active as an admin, anyone can step down from admin duties, and most in the co-op do not contribute time or money. If we were to consider running something new, like setting up another service, then we'd most likely push for more interaction through a vote.
As a side note, I agree that a vote doesn't indicate consensus. Sunbeam City has switched to consensus, where before we were voting on almost everything. I think it's working better now.
@GreenandBlack @starfall @KT
For recall, wouldn't we would just operate in the same way to make form an agreement? If I've stepped out of line or done something shitty as an admin or individual, I expect to be held to account. I imagine the other people with access to admin accounts feel the same way? It's not really something that's come up though, I don't think.
@KT @puffinus_puffinus I share the concerns of @starfall to some degree but to me personally mine are no big concerns. (Although I certainly understand why someone could have big concerns about it.) To me, giving that concept a shot is way better than potentially loosing the cafe cause this place has come to mean a lot to me. Speaking for at least two of my headmates as well.
What I'm wondering is: what exactly would be the goal and how would the transition phase look?
I think the goal might be to "onboard" people who are interested in stepping up as admins on how to potentially work in such a co-op, but not "enforcing" admins from outside our community, right? And for the transition some of your admins might become our admins until we're ready to do it on our own? Is that about right?
Well, here's how I picture it (which is not representative of the co-operative, it's just my ideas):
First off, the goal and transition would be whatever you want really, because we're not colonising, we're attempting to help you set up as a co-operative. One of our aims would be to make you sustainable as a separate co-operative though.
SBC members could take over admin / server duties temporarily, could help you set up funding (if you don't already have something in place), and could show you how we run things to aid you in setting up your own co-operative (which pretty much just needs people to step forward willing to help out).
What you said fits with my ideas.
Plural Café is a community for plural systems and plural-friendly singlets alike, that hopes to foster a safe place for finding and interacting with other systems in the Mastodon fediverse.